Rishon Rishon

"He wants Jews to follow his commandments"-- He wants "strangers" too! - see the Sabbath commandment. The point of "faith" as in "justification by faith" is that "strangers" by trust in God become a part of Israel [ "honorary Jews"] although not born as a Jew, and so live "within the gates".Of course this is "life-style based" for by "faith" [ie the enabling power of God] the stranger keeps the commandments, with a little latitude on interpretation of the halakha "who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit".
Talking about "flesh" have you discussed nephesh and "the breath of life".
Peter.

It's interesting that some people have an emotional need to know exactly what awaits us. Like the people who would love to do a simple mathematical formula to find out what's coming to them.
At the boker limud I go to Nissan mentioned something about it this week. I hope I took notes on that point. Bli neder, I'll start transcribing this week's notes tonight. There are things in the archives, since we're learning T'hilim and Kohelet.

It's interesting you bring this up because I was just grilling my rabbi, who believes in reincarnation, about how that all works. And I came away feeling that it's all a bit vague in the end, so I'd better simply focus on doing the best I can here and have faith that it will work out. After questioning Jews I know (I'm Bat Noach) about what they thought about where they go when they die their responses showed that they weren't really sure and it didn't seem to stress them at all, which surprised me. Isn't anyone super curious about where this life is all heading? I also find it curious that for Jews (although definetly not for me) the laws are so super specific, yet the 'finish line' is so vague. Perhaps the goal is to live purely in the moment in a hightened state of spirituality so that the heavenly experience is brought right down to us as a sign of God's pleasure. Am I even close on this?

What do Jews tell kids when they ask where a deceased person went? (Doesn't that sound like a set up for a joke?)

Alice: There's a saying (from Pirqey Avot 1:3):

אל תהיו כעבדים המשמשין את הרב על מנת לקבל פרס

Don't be like slaves who serve the master in order to get a reward.

Alice: Jews say that the person went to `Olam Haba' - the next world.

Thanks. Isn't there also a saying something like "If you fear God, you needn't fear anything else."? Fear implies punishment, the opposite of reward. So rewards seem built in, yet one isn't supposed to think about them- just their opposite? In other words, if you fear puishment, aren't you really seeking reward?

It is possible to serve God out of love, or out of fear. Love is better. Love means you identify with God, you accept His goals as your goals, you merge your identity with His.

That's a nice way to put it. I find being one with God, when I can do it, to be a joyous experience. (I was going to say 'rewarding' but then you'd want to slap me. hee hee) Perhaps I'm really quibbling over words. And I could clearly go on all night because I've been stuck on this subject for a week. Thank you for the relaxing discussion. This is a nice blog.

Do you think that a person could be an Orthodox Jew, and also be an atheist?

Miki: Yes, I think it's possible, though not a "religious atheist".

I've lost you again: what's a "religious atheist"?

Miki: One who thinks people "should" be atheist.

Those seriously interested in the subject will probably want to look up Simcha Raphael Paull's "Jewish Views of the Afterlife" (Jason Aronson, Inc., 1996), which translates a great variety of texts, with some analysis, and some personal interpretation. The plural in the title ("Jewish Views," not "The Jewish View") recognizes up front that the book is about a subject which never became a matter of uniform required belief.

Simply assembling the material from a variety of places and dates over two millenia gives a somewhat misleading impression of the extent of detailed speculation about an afterlife, rewards and punishments therein, and personal eschatology in general. Some of it had very limited circulation, a few pieces were included in well-known Midrash collections. And, whlle some of the material clearly belongs to the main stream of Rabbinic culture, some looks like it was always marginal, at best. Paull acknowledges this, but one has to read carefully!

Reincarnation clearly was important to Lurianic and early Hassidic groups; how they thought it fit in with older accounts of Gehinnom, Pardes, and the World to Come, is often unclear in the few texts I have seen translated.