Some years ago, when my wife was 7 months pregnant with our first child, we took a three-week vacation in Scandinavia. (Probably our last vacation as a couple for the next 20 years...) I was reminded of this trip when I read Hatshepsut's post comparing Israeli and Icelandic hospitality.
We were a group of about 45 Israelis: about half older couples on a post-child-raising vacation, and the other half mostly retired people. My wife and I were among the youngest on the trip, which suited us fine, since we were still newly enough married to be fairly uninterested in others our own age. So it wasn't a group of rowdy youngsters by any means. Nevertheless, we garrulous, amiable, informal Israelis were quite a contrast to our dour, formal hosts. And there were no lack of conflicts and misunderstandings as a result. I will relate some of them here. (Warning: I am telling these stories from my own point of view, which is distinctly one-sided.)
Now, a seven-month-pregnant woman has quite a large child sitting on her bladder. As a result, we were in a more or less continual search for a bathroom. You may or may not believe this, but restaurants in Scandinavia will actually turn away an obviously pregnant woman with the refrain: "The bathrooms are only for patrons". Sometimes they will direct you somewhere else, often located a considerable distance away, often a McDonald's or some other restaurant. One time in Stockholm, after being turned away from several establishments in a row, a patron overheard my wife being told, yet again, that she couldn't use the bathroom. He got up from his meal and told the headwaiter that he wouldn't eat in a restaurant that wouldn't let a pregnant woman use the bathroom. As we were walking out (me, my wife, and the patron) we exchanged a few words. He was an Israeli.
We spent the days touring, often arriving late at our hotel. One time in Oslo we arrived at our destination quite late, around 11:15 PM. As 45 Israelis decamped in the lobby, our tour guide argued with the management. She had arranged to arrive late, but she had told them that we would arrive at 11:00 - and we were fifteen minutes late! So apparently the personnel necessary to admit us had already been sent home. Eventually some more money changed hands, the missing personnel miraculously appeared, and we were admitted. I couldn't help thinking that if it were Jews behaving this way toward Scandinavians, instead of the other way around, we would be hearing some nasty stereotypes.
My last story took place at a hotel in some tiny Norwegian town, I don't remember which (we were in a lot of them). The usual procedure for disembarking was very orderly, and we eventually learned it well. Our tour guide had given all our baggage large, colorful numbers. When we arrived, she would give the hotel management a list of our names and numbers (the same numbers as on our baggage) and they would use it to assign rooms, hand out keys, and bring the baggage to the correct destination. The bus driver would unload the baggage from the bus, and line it up on the curb, from which someone from the hotel staff would take it to the rooms. It so happened that shortly after we arrived at this particular hotel, while we were waiting in the lobby to get our room assignments, the heavens opened up, and it started to pour. We looked out the glass front of the hotel, and there were our bags, in a neat line, getting wet. Of course, we all ran outside to collect our suitcases, and bring them helter-skelter into the lobby. The hotel management was furious! "You cannot do this!" (That's an exact quote.) We were disrupting their system. "You will have to take your baggage to your rooms yourself," they told us. And that's what we did.
It seems to me that there are diminishing returns to order, and at some point they become distinctly negative. But maybe that's just my cultural prejudice. Scandinavia is much cleaner and neater than Israel.
PS: Our Swedish bus driver probably thought that we hated him. People were always complaining to him about something, or making life hard for him in some way. What a surprise he got when, at the end of the trip, someone spontaneously organized to tip him. It came to quite a lot, and he was visibly pleased.
Posted by David Boxenhorn at February 17, 2005 09:50 PMOkay to begin with... It was wrong of the busdriver to accept the tip. You don't tip in Scandinavia. Instead you pay *high* prices. I'm sure you noticed that, since Norway is the only country I've visited where prices come anywhere close to Iceland, where I live. (This is why I always get quite nervous in Israel, because I don't know how the whole tipping things works).
Second. The incident with the suitcase sounds strange. That's bad luck. But I mean HEY, I was almost arrested by the immigration police in Israel, just because of my Nordic appearance and a backpack.
Oslo is the worst place in the world for finding public bathrooms. I once searched 2 hours in vain. The only ones I could find cost *at least* $1,50, and I just wasn't prepared to pay that much for something I do all the time.. However, it isn't customary for Scandinavians to walk into a restaurant and ask to use the bathroom, not even if you're pregnant. It sounds bad, sure, but that's how it is. I would never do it. I myself work at a giftshop, and we're not allowed to let customers use the bathroom. We tell them where the next public toilet is (I once made an exception for a little boy). You go to a public bathroom.
But here in Iceland things are more laid back than in Norway. You should come here next!
http://icelandiscool.com/photos/
Posted by: Maria at February 18, 2005 09:00 PM PermalinkI think it's mean to turn away a pregnant woman who wants to use the bathroom. Shame on those restaurants concerned!
Like all evil, it's self-defeating, as the lone Israeli boycotter showed. It's bad for business to show disregard for suffering -- getting worse as awareness grows.
However, if you have used a private bathroom belonging to some business establishment, it also would be slightly mean to leave the premises without buying something or leaving a tip for the staff. So a pregnant lady should order a (small!) drink, or buy a packet of peanuts at the bar, or leave some money in the tip jar, perform some gesture, or something.
After all, the last thing we need is another EU regulation in this area. My local cafe's owner (which served an excellent cooked breakfast) had to shut down the kitchen because he couldn't afford to make his perfectly adequate bathroom compliant with European standards.
Maria: I don't think there's a comparison between avoidably wet luggage and the Israeli police's temporary suspicion - they are at war against people who want to blow ordinary civilians to bits. Anything slightly unusual is probably going to make junior officials nervous.
Perhaps your outrage in Oslo led you to make an irrational choice. Isn't $1.50 worth less than 2 hours of free time?
I'm married to a Swede. The bathroom thing throws us off every time we go there. You've got to plan it kind of, like have change at all times because you never know when it'll be a pay toilet- if you find the bathroom at all. It's wacky. And as a pregnant lady who often wonders why God put the bladder UNDER the baby, I can totally sympathize. It think it's inhuman to deny someone a bathroom. I grew up in DC, clearly a tourist destination, and NEVER had problems finding a bathroom or letting someon euse th bathroom where I worked, etc.- parking yes, bathrooms no.
This is not to say that there aren't many beautiful things about Swedes. And many Swedes kind of hate the bathroom system too!
Posted by: Alice at February 19, 2005 05:15 PM PermalinkMaria: Thanks for the perspective, I would love to visit Iceland!
Posted by: David Boxenhorn at February 19, 2005 06:11 PM PermalinkWe lived in London during my third pregnancy, and I had trouble finding public toilets there, too. This was in 1976. It wasn't/isn't? required even in department stores. Some have, and some don't. Once I was rather desperate, as only a pregnant woman could be, and wrangled a key for the staff loo. I learned not to be shy.
Posted by: muse at February 20, 2005 05:52 AM PermalinkYikes. 'Round these parts it's like:
"Dude! I gotta use yer bathroom!"
"Ouch! Second door on the left!"
"Thanks, man!"
"No sweat!"
Why in the world do people restrict their bathrooms? Is it just a territorial thing? "It is mine and is, therefore, not for asking!"
Or is it a money thing? "I pay the water bill and you may not flush without purchasing a pack of Yodels first!"
WTF? Denying anyone in need -- pregnant woman or otherwise -- use of your facilities is just plain rude and downright humiliation in action.
If someone asks to use my bathroom it means that they need a bathroom. Better to let you use mine than to leave you to pee in your pants, I think.
**shakes head**
Ponderous.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at February 20, 2005 08:07 AM PermalinkTom: There is no need to speak to me as if I were an imbecile? Yeah sure 2 hours of free time is worth more than $1,50. But to begin with, I kept thinking I would find a free toilet (since that's what I'm used to, being from Iceland). I'm a female, meaning I use the bathroom a lot, so having to pay that much everytime I go is a bitter pill to swallow.
As for the Israeli security. Sure it's understandable that there is security. But what they put me through in Israel (on numerous occasions) is *completely* unacceptable, and was only caused by my Scandinavian appearance. None of my Jewish friends have ever had to suffer anything of the sort. It often came close to ruining my trip. So try to avoid being unnecessarily rude next time, when you don't have all the facts.
As someone with a digestive disorder the bathroom situation is near and dear to my heart. I certainly do not need a bathroom at all times, but when I need to go the need is imminent, so this is a little disconcerting.
Anyway, part of the fun of traveling is experiencing new things, so I do find the cultural differences to be interesting.
Posted by: Jack at February 21, 2005 08:19 AM PermalinkOh but despite bathroom matters, wasn't Norway otherwise amazing?
Yes, geographically, Norway was amazing. I also like the wide variety of fish.
Posted by: David Boxenhorn at February 21, 2005 11:21 AM PermalinkMaria: I'm sorry if I've given offence, I didn't mean to be rude. I prefer a direct style of argument, without meta-discussion (which tends to obstruct truth-seeking). As a Popperian I welcome criticism and will be more careful in future comments.
The public bathroom episode was an example of the sunk cost fallacy. After, say, one hour of searching one should simply write off the time and pay the $1.50
Goodness knows I make this sort of mistake frequently. It crops up in many parts of our lives.
As for Israeli security, I wanted to make the point that during wartime there are unpleasant restrictions together, as always, with unintended consequences. You're right -- I don't have all the facts, in this kind of discussion that is unavoidable. Having visited your site, I see you have more experience of Israeli matters than me. So regarding the holiday experience, I'll defer to your wisdom.
Posted by: Tom at February 23, 2005 03:13 AM Permalink